IPR Daily专访｜INTA首席政策官Heather Steinmeyer 谈人工智能

下午好，Heather Steinmeyer。我很荣幸这次能与您交谈，欢迎您再次回到中国。您能简单介绍一下自己以及在INTA的职责吗？

Good afternoon, Ms. Heather Steinmeyer. It's a pleasure to be here. It's my pleasure speaking with you this time and welcome you back to China again. Could you please briefly introduce yourself and your role at INTA? 

很高兴来到中国。我叫Heather Steinmeyer，在国际商标协会（INTA）担任首席政策官。首席政策官的职能是帮助建立和推动组织的政策议程和政策倡导工作。我们时刻关注会员的关切，并确定INTA应该如何围绕这些议题采取行动。我们与各级政府部门、知识产权局、法院以及其他利益攸关方积极沟通，积极为会员发声。

Certainly. My name is Heather Steinmeier. I'm the Chief Policy Officer at the International Trademark Association or INTA. The role of the Chief Policy Officer is to help establish and promote the policy agenda and the advocacy work of the organization. That means that we are looking at the different types of issues and positions that matter to our members and determining how INTA should act with respect to those issues. Then we go out with that information and engage with stakeholders at all levels governments, intellectual property offices, courts, and many others to help express those viewpoints on behalf of INTA's membership。

您在INTA的工作职责涉及领导全球政策和倡导工作。您能否分享一下在您的任期内取得的一些成就？

Your role at INTA involves leading global policy and advocacy efforts. Could you share some of the accomplishments you have achieved during your tenure？

我很乐意分享。在2023年3月担任INTA首席政策官之前，我作为会员和志愿者为INTA服务多年，包括在2010年担任INTA主席。我和INTA保持着长期的联系。自2023年3月起，我正式担任INTA首席政策官，围绕政策建议，我们拟定了一系列高质量的政策建议，并通过董事会批准这些政策；自从我就任以来，INTA通过了8项董事会决议，我们还为各国法院提供专业支持，帮助推动法律的制定，以反映INTA的政策和立场。我们已经提交了超过15份法庭之友或建议书。此外，我们为各国立法提供专业支持和建议，向不同国家的立法机构和知识产权局提交了75份建议书，以表达我们对特定议题的看法。

Sure, I'd be happy to. I've been with the Association as a member of the staff since March of 2023. Before that, I was a member and a volunteer for many years before that, including serving as its president in 2010. So I have a long history with INTA overall, but have only been the Chief Policy Officer since March of 2023. Since that time, in terms of the policy and advocacy work, we have established a number of high-level policies, and we do that by getting the approval of our Board of Directors on what those positions should be. And we've passed roughly 8 policy positions in the form of board resolutions during that time since I've arrived. We also intervene with courts to help the law that is made through the judiciary evolve in ways that are consistent with INTA's policy positions. And in that regard, we've filed more than 15 amicus briefs or court interventions since I arrived. We also intervene regularly through written submissions and comments as legislation is developing around the world. And in that respect, we have filed more than 75 sets of comments with different legislatures, intellectual property offices, and to express INTA's views on particular subjects. 

我分享几个例子。对于INTA及其会员来说，关注的一个重要领域就是应对假冒以及如何在全球范围内打击假冒。例如，互联网平台的假冒问题需要我们共同努力，但其中的一项挑战是：在打击假冒的过程中，一些利益相关方的角色和责任并不十分明确。权利人需要做哪些工作来帮助平台识别并删除假冒商品？互联网平台又需要采取哪些行动以遏制假冒的进一步升级？我之前提到的8项董事会决议之一就与互联网平台的角色和责任相关。该决议关注互联网平台应当采取哪些最佳实践和最低标准，从而有效应对平台的假冒问题；如果互联网平台落实该决议中的内容，将会有哪些收获？换句话讲，如果互联网平台正在落实这些实践，那么它们就不应该因平台上售假而承担法律责任。这项董事会决议就是一个很好的范例。

Here are a couple of examples. So one of the areas that is always of paramount importance to INTA and its membership is anti-counterfeiting and the global fight against counterfeits. One of the areas in which this continues to be very active and something that requires a concerted effort is counterfeiting in online marketplaces. One of the challenges that we saw in combating counterfeiting online is that the roles and responsibilities of the stakeholders that are part of combating counterfeiting are not always clear. What do the rights owners need to do to help the marketplaces recognize and remove counterfeits from their marketplaces? And what do the marketplaces need to do to monitor and help try to address counterfeits even before they become bigger problems? In that regard, one of the Board Resolutions of those 8 that I described was focused on the role and responsibility of online marketplaces. And that was specifically intended to address what are the best practices and what are the minimum standards that marketplaces need to employ in their actions to keep counterfeits off their marketplaces. In particular, what are the benefits to the marketplaces if they do comply with that? In other words, we believe that under those circumstances, if a marketplace is exercising those best practices, they should not have to be legally liable for the sale of those counterfeits on their marketplaces. So that is one example of a board resolution that we have passed in the last few months.

另一个分享案例是，我们的会员非常关注互联网域名对品牌的滥用。但如何定义域名滥用是一项挑战，因为该定义并不一致。不同的机构，包括互联网治理机构之一的ICANN，它们的定义具有局限性，仅关注网络钓鱼、恶意软件和其他形式的网络欺诈等问题，并且仅在这种情况下涉及对品牌的滥用。一个更好的定义应该具备更广阔的视角，即域名滥用应包括任何在域名或其他域名标识中使用品牌、未经授权使用品牌的行为，只要这种行为可能导致欺骗、恶意或非法活动。当我们以董事会决议的形式确立了这些议题的政策立场，INTA同事和委员会就能与政府和其他决策者沟通，努力推动其采纳该定义，从而更有效地保护品牌。上述分享说明了我们通过一系列董事会决议、法庭之友以及政策建议书以明确INTA的立场。

Another example is that abuse of brands in Internet domain names is another type of topic that is always of interest to our members. One of the things that has been challenging in acting in that space is that there is not a consistent definition of what constitutes domain abuse. Different organizations, including ICANN, one of the Internet governance organizations, have definitions that in our view are too narrowly focused on things like phishing and malware and other forms of online fraud, and only address brand misuse in that context. We believe that a better definition is a broader definition that essentially states that domain abuse should constitute any use of a brand, unauthorized use of a brand, in a domain name or another domain identifier that can lead to deceptive, malicious, or illegal activity. Once we have these types of policy positions established in the form of a Board Resolution, that enables INTA, through its staff and its committees, to engage with governments and other leaders to seek to try to encourage the adoption of that definition, which then allows for perhaps more effective enforcement and protection of brands in connection with domain name abuse. So that's just to give a couple of examples of the types of policy positions that we have established in that set of resolutions and amicus briefs and comments that we've made.

感谢您的分享。人工智能已经成为时代趋势，甚至被称为第四次工业革命的标志。您认为人工智能将给商标领域和知识产权法律体系带来哪些关键变化，以及是否会引发潜在风险？

Thank you for your answer. Artificial intelligence has become a trend of the times, even being called the Hallmark of the Fourth Industrial Revolution. What key changes do you think AI will bring to the field of trademarks and the intellectual property legal framework, and will potential risks matter rise?

的确会带来很多变化。INTA委员会正在研究人工智能(AI)引发的诸多变化，诸如现行知识产权法律体系是否足以应对AI在信息、内容和创意生成方式上的发展，以及AI对内容生成的贡献等。

从INTA的角度来看，我们不仅关注这些具体问题，而且在协调推动这些问题的解决。鉴于AI引发了诸多问题，我们希望能够保持政策立场的一致性，并从全局的角度来应对AI在法律层面带来的重大挑战。为此，我们组建了一个人工智能咨询委员会，负责统筹至少15个工作组，这些工作组推进不同的工作，而委员会将确保这些工作组的协调与合作，从而使整个机构的工作成果保持一致。我们也关注如何支持会员更好地使用AI，从而推动知识产权行业的进步和工作方式的优化。与此同时，我们致力于帮助会员做好准备，以应对AI带来的挑战和风险。为此，我们正在积极开发各种项目、研究报告以及其他路径，帮助会员了解AI对客户建议的影响；或者帮助企业或商业机构预见AI可能引发的各种问题。

There is not just one, there are many. INTA has a number of committees that are looking into the types of questions that AI is raising with respect to whether current intellectual property law frameworks are adequate to address the developments that AI is introducing into the way that both individuals create information and content and ideas, and also the way that AI is contributing to the development of content now. One of the things that's very important from INTA's perspective is not only to be looking at the specific issues, and I'm happy to talk more about those issues, but also that we do so in a coordinated way. Because there are so many issues, we want to make sure that our policy positions are consistent and reflect a holistic approach with respect to the overarching challenges that AI raises from a legal perspective. And from that point of view, we have created an AI Advisory Council, which is a group that is overseeing the work of more than 15 different work streams looking at discrete issues to help make sure that those groups are coordinated and the results that we produce are consistent across the organization. We're also very much focused on how we can help our members both use AI and for the betterment, if you will, of the IP profession and how we all operate, but also how they can be prepared to respond to the challenges and the risks that AI is creating. So, from that point of view, we are developing programming and publications and other mechanisms to help our members understand how AI is likely to affect the advice that they need to give to their clients or if they are corporations and businesses, how those businesses need to anticipate the issues that AI is going to raise.

我再分享一个例子，今年三月，我们在纽约举办了为期两天的“人工智能商业大会”，这场会议聚焦AI如何影响法律行业，不仅包括AI引发的法律问题，还包括法律行业如何将AI作为一种工具。

To give one specific example there, in March of this year, INTA held a two-day Business of AI conference in New York, which was focused entirely on the way in which AI is affecting the legal profession, not only in terms of the legal issues it's raising, but how it is being used by the legal profession as a tool to do jobs.

由此可见，我们从多个维度来探讨AI，既包括其带来的法律风险，也包括AI在法律实务中的应用。

So there are multiple dimensions to how we are approaching AI, both in terms of the legal risk and the practical applications of AI to the business of law.

感谢您的分享。像ChatGPT这样产品的出现令许多法律专业人士担心未来AI将会取代他们的工作。一份2023年的报告估计，目前法律领域中有44%的工作可以实现自动化。您对此有什么看法？

Thank you for your answer. The advent of products like ChatGPT has made many legal professionals worry that AI will replace their jobs in the future. A 2023 Report estimated that currently 44% of the tasks in the legal field can be automated. What is your opinion on this？

AI有可能出色甚至更好地完成某些常规性任务。我们也相信AI拥有巨大的潜力来提升现有法律专业人员的工作效率。AI是一种非常有价值的工具。如今的法律专业人员面临着海量的信息，这些信息可能会引导并影响他们向客户提供的建议，无论这些客户是企业内部员工，还是向企业提供咨询的律师事务所。判例法、法律进展、地缘政治变化以及经济和商业变化，这些因素都应纳入到律师的考虑范畴。AI能有效地帮助律师利用更多信息，从而更好地为客户提供建议。因此，我们认为AI可以成为一个非常强大的工具，帮助专业人士取得成功，并在更精深的层面上开展工作。对于法律行业的初级职位而言，重要的一点是这些律师和其他法律专业人员需要拥抱AI。今年人工智能商业大会有一个有趣的说法，法律专业人士不必过于担心AI取代他们的工作，而更应该担心被懂得运用AI的律师取代。

We agree that there are certain routine tasks that AI is likely able to perform as well or better perhaps. However, we also believe strongly that there is a great deal of potential for AI to enhance the jobs of current legal professionals. AI is a valuable decision support tool. Legal professionals these days are faced with an enormous amount of information that can guide and impact on the advice that they are giving to their clients, whether those clients are within a business or it's, for example, a law firm advising a business. There is case law. There is legislative change. There is geopolitical change. There is economic and business change. All of these things are factors in the advice that lawyers give. AI can be a very effective way to help lawyers harness more information and better advise their clients. And so from that point of view, we think that AI can be a very powerful tool to help professionals succeed and operate at an even more sophisticated level. With respect to perhaps more junior jobs in the legal profession, it's important that those attorneys and other legal professionals also embrace AI. There was an interesting quote that came out of the AI for Business conference that I mentioned, which is that legal professionals need to worry less about AI replacing their jobs and more about their jobs being replaced by another lawyer who understands how to use AI.

AI可以增强初级专业人员在法律行业中发挥的作用。如果律师和专业人士能够熟练运用AI，编写有效的提示语以获得最佳、最可靠的结果，能理解AI的使用方法、识别结果的质量并进行有效评估，那么他们更有可能取得成功。法律行业最终将在AI的支持下蓬勃发展。因此，我们正通过“人工智能商业大会”等平台和专业资源，帮助会员理解并适应这些变革。

The types of roles that more junior professionals have perhaps played in the legal profession can also be enhanced by the use of AI. It will be the attorneys and the other professionals who can draft a good prompt for AI to get the best and most reliable results and understand what it takes to use AI and recognize the quality of the results and be able to assess that that are likely to succeed in our view. We think that at the end of the day, the profession should thrive with the support of AI. From that point of view, we are providing resources to our members like the Business of AI conference to help them understand what these changes will mean and adapt to that.

感谢您的分享。欧盟的《人工智能法案》已经正式生效。您对这个法案有什么看法？

Thank you for your opinion. The EU's Artificial Intelligence Act has officially come into effect. What is your view on this Act? 

该法案在近期生效，我们尚未观察到足够的实施情况，以真正评估其全面效力。但我们认为该法案中的一些原则非常有意义。这一法案根据AI工具的应用情况设定不同的风险等级，并要求对较高风险等级或AI功能的应用实施更严格的监管和治理。一些可能属于较高风险的应用，例如涉及大量个人信息和数据的医疗保健应用、防御类应用以及信息安全类应用等。我们认为，该法案采取分层风险方法，并根据风险等级设定相应的要求，是非常合理的。

It has recently come into effect, and we have not yet seen enough implementation under the Act to really be able to assess its full effectiveness. So I would say that right now we are in a bit of a Wait and See Mode with respect to the Act itself. However, there are some principles that are in the Act that we think make a lot of sense. In particular, the Act has created various risk levels depending on the application of the AI tool and seeks to apply greater controls and governance and oversight with respect to the higher risk levels or applications of AI capabilities. Some examples of things that might be higher risk would be healthcare applications where there's a great deal of personal and medical data involved, defense applications, information security. And the approach, in the act of stratifying the risk and putting in place appropriate requirements depending on the level of risk, we think makes a lot of sense.

谢谢您的分享。国际商标协会（INTA）如何帮助其会员应对人工智能带来的挑战，以及INTA在这一新兴领域有哪些实践和研究可以分享？

Thank you for your answer. How does INTA help its members cope with the challenges brought by artificial intelligence and what practices and research can INTA share regarding this emerging field?

刚才提到了AI咨询委员会统筹协调相关政策的制定，以及INTA主办的“人工智能商业大会”。此外，我们还通过政策对话等形式，定期与立法机构和知识产权局等进行交流，参与其组织的相关会议，帮助这些利益攸关方加深对AI应用的理解。

我们代表会员推动这些工作，以反映INTA在AI议题的思考和实践，同时我们也在此基础上制定我们的政策立场。此外，我们还会定期发布相关文章和资讯，旨在帮助我们的会员理解AI，并引导他们思考如何在业务中应用AI。

So I've mentioned a couple of the ways in which we are responding in terms of coordinating our policy development efforts through the AI Advisory Council. I've mentioned the Business of AI Conference. We're also engaging very regularly with stakeholders such as legislators and intellectual property offices in the form of policy dialogues and responding to their listening sessions as they attempt to understand how they should be approaching AI. We do this on behalf of our members to help reflect INTA's approach and thinking on this as we simultaneously develop our policy positions. In addition to that, we are regularly publishing articles and information intended to help our members understand the issues and get them thinking about perhaps how those issues apply in their businesses.

当我们从宏观的视角审视技术时，AI是当前技术领域的一个热门话题，它正在影响知识产权所有者和法律。但AI不是唯一的话题。过去有很多相关话题，未来也还会有。INTA的角色之一就是展望未来。在这方面，我们定期发布智库报告，这些研究成果预测各种先进技术的影响，帮助会员提前做好准备。我们预计会在AI领域看到更多的成果。此外，我们正在编撰AI主题的白皮书、推进相关工作，这些举措将帮助会员取得更大的成就。

When we look at technology more broadly, AI is a current hot topic in technology advancements that are affecting intellectual property owners and law. But it's certainly not the only one. There have been many topics in the past and there will be topics going forward. One of the roles that INTA plays is to look into the future. And in that respect, we have regularly published what we think of as Think Tank reports, which are intended to anticipate the impact of technology advancements of various types and provide advanced guidance to our members on how best to address that. So I would expect to see more work like that coming out in the area of AI. And I know that we have a number of White Papers and works at the moment on various topics dealing with AI that will contribute to that body of work for our members.

感谢您的精彩分享。

Thank you for your answer. 

谢谢。

Thank you.